Will AI replace my kid’s teacher?

Hello, and welcome to our podcast Raising Generation AI, with me, mom of two, Holly Green.

And me, Fiona Morgan, the AI expert.

This podcast is all about the complicated world of parenting and AI, because I’m a mom, and I’m rather worried about it all.

And this week, we’re asking the question, will AI replace my kid’s teacher? And later on, we’ll be chatting to the AI educator himself, Dan Fitzpatrick. How is the House of Science experiments this week, Holly?

Ah, well, I’ll tell you what, this week, less science experiments and more dental hygiene.

So my kids don’t really like minty toothpaste. And I’ve been trying to get them to use minty toothpaste for, well, since they were babies, since they grew teeth, and they’ve never really been into it.

So anyway, I went to France, as you know, a couple of weeks ago, and I forgot to bring the toothpaste.

And so I went to the supermarket and bought some, but I couldn’t, they don’t seem to have minty toothpaste in France, they only seem to have strawberry toothpaste. So I got the strawberry toothpaste and the kids loved it, didn’t they?

They absolutely loved it. And so anyway, I brought the toothpaste home, we’ve now got through it all, we’ve run it out. And so I went back to the minty toothpaste, which now the kids won’t use.

So I found some strawberry toothpaste in the UK, which apparently is also not good enough. So I was like, I’m going to have to get toothpaste shipped from France.

I mean, don’t, I know what it sounds like, but I mentioned this to a couple of friends and they said that kids are also really funny about toothpaste. They were like, can we try this French toothpaste as well?

So I ended up ordering a box of toothpaste from France. And later on in the school run, I’ll be taking it to dish out at the school gates, like some sort of mad, dodgy deal, toothpaste dealer.

I can just imagine you now like opening your coat and having all this.

What can I get you?

Toothpaste.

You want ages three to four or three to six?

I want to try it.

Oh, next time you come, do not worry. I’ll save a tube just for you. Okay.

What’s toothpaste like in Thailand? Do you have fancy toothpaste out there?

Actually, I did see something on social media the other day that they did like a Thai tea-flavoured toothpaste. It went kind of viral because everyone was talking about this special Thailand Thai tea-flavoured toothpaste. I have not tried it.

I don’t really like tea.

So can you please try it?

I will see if I can track it down. God knows where they sell it. But yes, I will do my own little experiment this week and see if I can find myself some toothpaste.

Anyway, this week we’re talking AI in schools. What are your concerns? Where’s your head at?

See, I’m quite old fashioned and I sort of think what’s wrong with good old pen and paper and teacher-led learning.

And I worry about what AI in education would even look like. I mean, are we talking about learning about AI? Are we talking about teachers using AI behind the scenes?

Or are we talking about the AI actually teaching the children, which to me is the one that I would be particularly concerned about. And also it’s just that sense of, I mean, my kids are really young.

If we do end up in a much more AI led education system, are they sort of the guinea pig children that are going to go into this world? And what will the outcomes look like? You know, what does this look like in 10 years time?

So I am quite concerned about AI and education. I think there’s going to be lots of things to ask Dan about this. I feel like it’s the sort of conversation that could go on for about three hours, but we will not be putting out a three hour podcast.

What will be interesting to know is how prevalent is this?

Is it everywhere in schools? I have no concept of, you know, we talk about kids cheating or doing their homework at GPT at home, but I have no idea what this is being used for in schools. I totally agree.

Where were they in?

I see. I thought you would have more of an idea, but I thought this was just me having no clue. I feel exactly the same.

What does it look like? Is it a personalised AI tutor? Is it, as I say, is it just teachers being helped with marking?

I don’t know.

Funny you should say that. I don’t know if you remember during COVID when the kids couldn’t take exams.

And what they did was they designed some kind of algorithm that took their predicted scores and how well the school had previously done and all this kind of stuff, and used that to grade kids. And actually, I mean, that’s AI.

If you’re talking about AI as being these kind of pattern spotting, taking a whole load of data, training it and then giving an output. And there was uproar that it was generalising so much because what that does is it misses the outliers.

Those kids that have come from a background where they’re maybe not expected from the data to go and do particularly well. But they, as individuals, have put in this effort and really make sure that they work really hard.

And they have become what we were calling data and outlier. And algorithms erase that. Well, algorithms used in the wrong way can erase that.

And I think that’s one of the big arguments against what happened. Obviously, the government did kind of backtrack and took the teachers predicted grades. But that’s an example of where it was used in AI.

AI was used in education and not particularly well. So I have faith to an extent that teachers are fighting the good fight for this and trying to keep AI out.

But I also wonder if through doing that, if they go too far, are they missing some opportunities?

Who are we going to talk to today?

We are going to talk to Dan Fitzpatrick. He is the AI educator. So he goes into schools and he helps them figure out what to do with AI.

On the podcast today, we’re chatting to Dan Fitzpatrick. Dan’s known as the AI Educator. He’s a three time bestselling author and has trained over 150,000 educators worldwide.

He used to be a teacher, so has spent a lot of time in actual schools and does know what it’s like to help kids learn.

He’s a big advocate of AI and education, as you’d probably expect, but he has also said that AI is the accelerator, not the ignition, highlighting that AI can’t yet solve the most important element in learning, motivation.

Dan Fitzpatrick, welcome to Raising Generation AI.

Fiona, Holly, thanks for having me. It’s great to be with you.

Thanks so much for joining us this morning. Can I start off by just asking, because my two are still very young and I feel like I don’t have a good sense of this, what is happening right now? How is AI used being right now in education?

Wow, it’s a big question and-

Sorry, it’s starting big.

No, it’s a bit.

You know what, I remember when I first properly started doing a lot of work on AI with schools around the world, and as you can imagine, kind of correlated with ChatGPT end of 2022.

I remember someone saying to me, your keynote talk is going to have to change quite often because of how much this topic is changing.

And you know what, it has, but it hasn’t at the same time, because I think as anything, when it comes to adoption, when it comes to awareness, it’s not that everybody’s moving at the same time.

It’s just that the level of awareness and skills is just widening and widening. So you get people who still are are day one with this technology, but then people who are at the real cutting edge side.

So and I think to answer your question, we’re seeing that across schools, across education systems around the world.

I think like anything that needs a proactive adoption and, you know, education systems aren’t known for being exactly innovative and really forward looking. So what you, I’m sorry, I’m just conscious that I could hear my son crying in the background.

So if you can hear that.

We expect a bit of background noise from kids.

I heard like a big slap noise and then a cry. I’m like him and his sister are probably fighting right now.

If you need to go and deal with a child related emergency, please do go and do that, do not let us stop you.

The mom is with them, so it should be all right. But yeah, so schools aren’t the fastest moving organizations and neither should there be really. What they’re doing needs to be a bit more thought through, I think, than a lot of other organizations.

But we’re seeing a lot of teachers kind of using this. And I suppose like you say this in business as well, on an individual basis. So, okay, I’ll just use it for their own kind of emails, their own planning, their own admin tasks.

And then kind of the far other end, you’re seeing full school organizations taking on board enterprise level tools and upskilling all of their staff and starting to use especially AI agents and autonomous AI that can make its own decisions and use

different software on its own. So yeah, I suppose the whole breadth of it really.

I suppose there’s quite a big difference between the teachers using it behind the scenes and it physically being used to teach the children, isn’t there? Are we seeing much of the latter?

Most people are still very firmly in the, well, it’s just helping me with my day to day tasks. And we’re seeing that with teachers as well. Actually putting AI into the classroom, I think.

I mean, I still kind of think when I talk about this or I get asked similar questions, I think, well, what even is that? What does that even look like?

Because we know that a teacher in front of, let’s say, 30 students in a classroom, which is the typical scene up and down the country, is that’s a very human thing.

That’s a very, it’s a teacher expressing themselves, expressing the learning, it’s students interacting on a human level.

So I suppose what we do see in some regard is maybe students using an artificial intelligence chatbot that’s been specifically pre-prompted by a teacher, to only focus on a certain curriculum or a certain resource.

So we are seeing some teachers start to experiment with those tools where they go, right, well, if you need some help, this chatbot is being pre-trained on this resource, so you can ask it or…

But I think what we’re kind of seeing is that not necessarily always being used in the classroom, but being used outside of the classroom.

So for example, homework or working on some work out where the teacher is not going to be present, being able to say, right, well, there’s a chatbot there that’s been trained on this content. So if you need some help, then there it is.

When you talk about using it outside of the classroom, I suppose that also opens up the question of cheating, doesn’t it? Because surely it makes cheating just so easy.

This is a topic for me that I’m quite passionate about because I think some of the initial reactions to this technology is to think of it like a cheating tool. I’m just going to type in, do the work for me.

And you know what, I think we’ve come a long way over the last three, four years. This technology is going nowhere. It’s firmly implanted.

I’m not the biggest fan of the ban conversation. And it’s almost like an unpopular thing to say at the minute, but I’m not the biggest fan of the social media ban, neither at the minute or the screen ban.

Because I think we’ve got a duty to help our students prepare for it and to be safe. And I think most of the time, in my experience, just saying we’re going to ban something is almost just like switching it off.

And I think what that does is it fails to take into account the fact that students have got lives outside the classroom. They’re using this technology outside the classroom.

Now, I’m not saying we need to infuse it into absolutely everything we do, but I think we’ve got a bit of a duty to help students use it in a safe way, in a way that’s going to benefit them and by developing skills with it.

And by just simply saying, right, we’re not even going to talk about that. We’re going to ban it. We’re not going to allow it into this space where students spend valuable time of their lives, I think is a dereliction of duty, I think.

When you talk about the ban, are you talking about the ban for under 16s on social media?

Or are you talking about banning in the classroom?

I think just the general sentiment, which includes that ban on under 16s on social media. But also we’re seeing a lot of conversations around screen time as well at the moment.

And one of the biggest areas technology is impacting students in the classroom is with assistive technology for students who’ve got special educational needs.

And I think just to go right, we’re not going to have that technology is going to be detrimental to a lot of students. So I think, like everything, this topic is nuanced.

It’s really nuanced and a black and white decision on this type of thing very rarely helps everyone.

And I think we’ve got a duty to make sure that we are not only helping our students learning, that’s kind of 101, that’s what should be happening in the classroom.

But also how are we helping them prepare and stay safe and be successful in the world they actually live in, not in the world we would like it to be like, if that makes sense?

Yeah, I can totally see that. I mean, it’s just there is that sense that, I mean, I look at my two and I don’t, they have a little bit of screen time, not much, it’s really just television.

We don’t really have any phones or tablets or anything, but as I say, they’re very young. But on the occasion where they have picked up my phone, they instinctively know how to create it, it just seems to be so easy for them.

They automatically get the pressing and the zooming and what not. So if technology is very easy to learn, is it something we actively need to be teaching?

Don’t we need to be focusing on the other skills that aren’t as easy to just pick up and run with?

To be honest, same with us. When they were young, a few years ago, we bought them the Amazon kids tablets and very, very quickly took them away. So we don’t have any tablets now.

We’ve got like our car has a screen in the back where they sit. And if we’re on really long journeys, we might give them half an hour, an hour. So we’re the same because we’ve learned from experience of how it isn’t helping them.

I think what I’m trying to say here is, it’s not necessarily the instructional how to use the technology. And technology companies make this easy to use. So it’s intuitive.

So it’s no surprise that they can pick it up really easily. But I think we’re probably talking about the same thing here. And it’s those skills of how to use it in a way that’s going to benefit them.

So that’s not necessarily like press this button and this is what it does. It’s well, it’s more the meta skills around that. So actually, just because the screen tells you something, is that can you trust it?

How do we begin to evaluate it? And especially this becomes more pertinent when we’re talking about AI, which is designed just to give information. So how do we approach that?

How do we ask the right questions? How do we iterate with it? How do we, how do we allow our authentic voice to stay prominent in whatever we’re doing and not allow the AI’s voice to take over?

How do we then evaluate anything that this is telling us? And so on. So when I talk about technological skills, that’s the kind of thing I’m talking about.

I’m very much of the mindset of, especially at primary school level, that we probably shouldn’t be introducing AI, especially where students are using it personally on their own.

I think showing it in classroom and using it with the teacher, so the teacher can say, right, look what this does, can we? And I’ve seen some amazing examples of that. I think it can be really effective.

But yeah, so I think when I’m talking about skills and awareness and all of that around the technology, I think the actual how to use it is quite low down on the list there, if that makes sense.

And in many ways, those are skills that we would historically have been learning anyway in a different way, in things like history classes, you learn to analyse sources and things, don’t you? And I suppose some of those skills are quite similar.

I’m really interested to hear what teachers think about this technology. Are they excited about what it’s going to do to their classroom or are they nervous? What are teachers telling you?

As you can imagine, it’s very mixed, very, very mixed.

I think first and foremost, I think most teachers that I encounter are excited about the fact that something can pick up some of the workload, especially around administrative tasks.

And I think that’s probably what gets most of us excited when we first come across this technology. I think then it gets a bit very nuanced and mixed as we look at, well, how do we use it with students?

Because I think there is still a real concern of the cognitive offloading.

So, and I suppose the cheating element comes under that umbrella of just of going, right, well, this thing seems to be able to do these tasks really well, so I will just get it to do the work for me.

I think that one of the most amazing things about this technology, and this goes for, I suppose, any age person, if you want to learn something, if you want to better your knowledge and maybe even better your opportunity in life, if you’ve got the

curiosity and some basic skills to use AI, nothing can stop you. Really nothing can stop you now with what you can access and what you can learn with this technology.

I really worry about the equity gap there between students who have been given some skills, who have been given maybe the right device or the right powerful AI subscription and have curiosity versus the students who haven’t been given those

opportunities, who haven’t had their curiosity fostered and that motivation developed. Because I think what we will see is, in fact, I think we were already seeing it, is a gulf start to form between that student and that other student.

And so I kind of think, how does our education system, how do our schools become places where curiosity is at the center? It’s not just something on the periphery that we indulge every now and then, but go, okay, but now you need to learn this.

Do you know what I mean? Because I think, as soon as a child enters a classroom, the content, the way it’s being taught, the structure, everything is already been decided by somebody else.

And by definition, therefore, the curiosity is not indulged at all.

I think we’re at a bit of a crux point now, and that’s why I think strategically thinking about this rather than just plugging AI in is another tool, is what I see the wise educational leaders doing.

Can I just ask you one question to wrap up? My kids are still quite young. They’re entering an education system that I feel like I…

Well, I don’t think any of us know what it’s going to look like in two, three, five, 10 years time. What can I best be doing now to prepare them for this future of education?

I suppose this is from my personal experience.

So I have a five and a six year old, and I think what I’m doing, and I’m hoping this is the right answer, and I don’t think anyone fully knows, but I, instead of asking them kind of, what do you want to be? What do you want to do when you’re older?

I think trying to reframe that question as to, what do you want to build? What do you want to create?

And actually, even now, like just us at home, me pulling out my phone and saying, not giving it to them, not saying, here it is, go away and use this, but us together going, well, let’s see, let’s take those ideas and see what you can kind of do

already. What can you, and I think just getting them into that mindset of that life isn’t about now having to wait till you’re a graduate or till you’re 18 years old to become what you want to become in the world.

And I think for educators who are listening, imagine we brought that into the classroom. And for parents who are listening, we don’t have to wait for that to be brought into the classroom. We can foster that right now.

We can help our kids take agency and start to build and create right now when they’re with us on a weekend and after school, before school. So yeah, I think don’t be afraid of AI as well. Take it out in front of them, with them.

And one of the things I sometimes do is say, right, imagine we were going to create a business. And I say this to my five and six year old, imagine we’re going to create a business. What should we sell?

What should we do? And I take the phone out and I go, let’s put some of these ideas into AI and see what AI suggests, how we get started. And maybe, I mean, you could take that to the end level of business plans and create a website.

And I think just it’s broadening the horizon and making sure that they’re conscious of the world that we now live in, not the world that their teacher grew up in and is trying to maintain, or that the parent grew up in and is trying to maintain, but

And I think that’s a tricky thing, isn’t it?

It’s changing our own perspective of the world.

But that’s so insightful and it’s given me a lot of food for thought as well, because I suspect I still talk to my kids about the world that I grew up in, which is not the world they’re going to be growing up in. So that’s brilliant.

Thank you so much.

If anyone is looking to get in touch with you, follow you, see what it is that you do, where can they find you? Tell us about your podcast.

If you go to theaieducator.io, you can find everything there. We’ve got podcasts, we’ve got a weekly newsletter where we discuss this type of thing and lots of guides for educators, but also lots of stuff parents will find useful as well.

Thank you so much. It’s been absolutely lovely to chat to you.

So Holly, how are you feeling about your kids going into the school system, having spoken to Dan?

Yeah, it’s interesting, isn’t it?

Because I mean, they’re both really, really young. And it’s just so hard to get a sense. And I don’t think even Dan there has a sense of what the future of education looks like.

I thought his points about talking to kids about what they want to build and create rather than what they want to do was really, really interesting. I thought that was a really, really good point.

The big thing as well is, it’s a lot for teachers to take on the whole learning of AI, learning how to use it, learning the best way to teach it. It’s huge, really, isn’t it?

It’s such a big shift in terms of, well, I suppose everything they’re doing and how they’re doing it and have teachers really got the time to be doing that.

I don’t know, it’s really tricky because the companies that are selling the products and trying to get them on board have their motives of making money, which is completely fair.

We live in a society where you need to make money and businesses make money. That’s kind of what you do.

So I think there’s nothing wrong with that, but teachers are not buyers, but they’re being put in that position where they are and they’re already super busy.

That’s what I hope people like Dan are helping with, is being that expert and understanding what these tools can and can’t do and how they can actually be used and taking that responsibility a bit off of teachers.

Yeah, I thought he was really balanced, actually. I expected him to be much more pro AI, but I thought he had a very balanced view on it, sort of the positives, the negatives. I thought that would be really interesting.

I think a big thing as well is we’re talking about the education system and what it needs to be like, but we don’t know what the job market looks like in five years’ time, ten years’ time, do we?

So how can we possibly know how the education system should look if we don’t know how the job market should look? And so I think this is something we need to look at for next week. I don’t know, what entry level jobs look like in the future?

Great idea.

And that’s just one of a number of great topics we’ve got coming up over the next few weeks. So we’ll talk about jobs next week. We’ve got some stuff about generative AI, preschool toys coming up in the future.

We’re talking to someone about AI deep fakes. So if you’re listening and you’ve not yet subscribed, do subscribe because you’re going to miss some great conversations if you don’t.

Yes, I think that’s everything from us this week. So we will see you next week.